Transcript of the Go4Energy debate during the Future4Build conference

Feel free to read the tran­script of near­ly the whole Go4Energy debate “Future of ener­gy-sav­ing build­ing in Poland.” The debate took place on Novem­ber 7th, 2013 dur­ing the Future4Build fairs. The debate is part­nered by the Mura­tor Pub­lish­ing House.

Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: A warm wel­come to all of you. My name is Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak, I rep­re­sent Go4Energy, the com­pa­ny that invent­ed this debate. As we are short of time, I will pro­ceed to pre­sen­ta­tion of our speak­ers and will start a bit uncon­ven­tion­al­ly, not from a lady. I wish to present Mr. Tomasz Gałąz­ka from the Min­istry of Trans­port, Build­ing and Mar­itime Econ­o­my. You may applaud, of course. I think Mr. Gałąz­ka will tell us many inter­est­ing things about upcom­ing changes in law. Then, I would like to present Mr. Paweł Puch­er from the legal office Kance­lar­ia Kac­zor Klim­czyk Puch­er Wyp­iór Adwokaci, who will most prob­a­bly help us with inter­pre­ta­tion of these reg­u­la­tions. Anoth­er per­son I would like to present is Mr. Michał Marsza­łek from Skan­s­ka Prop­er­ty Poland — an inter­est­ing voice in the dis­cus­sion from a devel­op­er. Anoth­er per­son today with us is Ms. Agniesz­ka Kali­nows­ka-Soł­tys from APA Woj­ciechows­ki — who rep­re­sents archi­tects who have to com­bine all the legal changes with the voice of investors. And anoth­er per­son is Ms. Zuzan­na Paciorkiewicz from DTZ — a com­pa­ny that man­ages real prop­er­ties.  I think we will hear voic­es a prop­er­ty man­ag­er hears from lessees, who are the actu­al ben­e­fi­cia­ries of all our actions in scope of ener­gy sav­ing. And last but not least, I would like to present Mr. Piotr Bartkiewicz from the War­saw Uni­ver­si­ty of Tech­nol­o­gy — the school that teach­es future spe­cial­ists, engi­neers who will have to find their way in this mar­ket, some­how. Stu­dents who start now, will be grad­u­at­ing around 2020. Which is exact­ly when the main changes will have to come in force. I give a warm wel­come to all of you. Thank you for accept­ing the invi­ta­tion to this debate.


Now, I will start the sub­ject of obsta­cles in devel­op­ment of ener­gy-sav­ing build­ing. A sub­ject that may seem strange to you — why do we talk about obsta­cles in the first place? Every­one knows there are obsta­cles. We know that too, but we start­ed to think whether the obsta­cles we iden­ti­fy are real­ly obsta­cles that con­cern us all, (…) or whether obsta­cles we see are actu­al­ly the same obsta­cles against which oth­er builders through­out Poland hurt. There­fore (…) we had a sur­vey con­duct­ed, which we addressed to 2000 devel­op­ers in Poland (…), ask­ing them to iden­ti­fy prob­lems or chal­lenges that they face. As part of the report, which is avail­able on our web­site, the basic obsta­cles have been iden­ti­fied (…)


(Note: at this moment of the debate, sur­vey results were pre­sent­ed. More»)


Right now, I have no time to dis­cuss the whole report, that is why I encour­age you to read it on our web­site, and now, I would like to start the debate by ask­ing our par­tic­i­pants four basic ques­tions: what do we expect, what con­se­quences of the EU direc­tives (stat­ing that by 2020 all new build­ings in Poland should meet ener­gy sav­ing require­ments) will be for Poland? What will be the reac­tion of the build­ing sec­tor? What does this look like from the point of view of a sin­gle build­ing and eco­nom­ic effect relat­ed to ener­gy-sav­ing activ­i­ties? How do our speak­ers expect the build­ing mar­ket to look after 2020? I would like to give the floor to Mr. Tomasz Gałąz­ka. Let us start our meet­ing.


Tomasz Gałąz­ka: Good morn­ing, Ladies and Gen­tle­men. Thank you for invit­ing me. I would like to answer to the first ques­tion dis­played a moment ago on the slide — what will be the con­se­quences of imple­men­ta­tion of the direc­tive? There are a cou­ple of direc­tives that relate to ener­gy effi­cien­cy, includ­ing ener­gy effi­cien­cy in build­ing. These are direc­tives on ener­gy per­for­mance, on pro­mot­ing renew­able sources of ener­gy, and the ener­gy effi­cien­cy direc­tive. These direc­tives will above all result in grad­ual improve­ment (…) of ener­gy effi­cien­cy in build­ing.  (…) Reg­u­la­tions on ener­gy effi­cien­cy and ther­mal pro­tec­tion of build­ings are about to come into effect.  I would like to empha­size that the exist­ing require­ments do not, in fact, pre­vent any­one from build­ing bet­ter. (…) As Mr. Augusty­ni­ak point­ed out in his intro­duc­tion, the require­ments will be grad­u­al­ly tight­ened, until the objec­tive deter­mined in pro­vi­sions on ener­gy per­for­mance of build­ings is achieved. This objec­tive con­sists in reach­ing near-zero ener­gy lev­els in case of build­ings con­struct­ed since 2021. And this is the pur­pose the new stan­dards should serve. (…) Apart from these reg­u­la­tions con­cern­ing the ener­gy stan­dard of the build­ings, the key and very impor­tant ele­ment of the ener­gy assess­ment sys­tem is the oblig­a­tion imposed on design­ers, which has been in force in our legal sys­tem since this Octo­ber.  This is an oblig­a­tion say­ing that when cre­at­ing doc­u­men­ta­tion, the design­ers should include in the tech­ni­cal descrip­tion of the build­ing the infor­ma­tion, analy­sis of pos­si­bil­i­ties of using renew­able ener­gy sources for hot water, heat­ing, cool­ing (if applic­a­ble) and light­ing in pub­lic build­ings.  And maybe that is it to start with.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Thank you, Mr. Gałąz­ka. And now, I would like to ask Mr. Puch­er for a short com­men­tary.


Paweł Puch­er: Ladies and Gen­tle­men, Mr. Gałąz­ka was kind to show us a few con­se­quences of reg­u­la­tions com­ing into force, how­ev­er these are reg­u­la­tions which already exist in our legal sys­tem. These are amend­ed ordi­nances con­cern­ing the stan­dards to be met by build­ings, their loca­tion, as well as ordi­nance on the scope and detailed con­tents of a build­ing design. These reg­u­la­tions actu­al­ly come into force on Jan­u­ary 1st, but this is only a frac­tion of what has to be imple­ment­ed accord­ing to the Euro­pean leg­is­la­tor and I would like to point out — if I am to speak about obsta­cles — to what our gov­ern­ment and our par­lia­ment do not do and what makes these obsta­cles exist. (…) Actu­al­ly both the 2010 direc­tive on ener­gy per­for­mance of build­ings and the 2012 direc­tive on ener­gy effi­cien­cy set, in my opin­ion, the right direc­tion (…), and the trans­po­si­tion of these reg­u­la­tions into the Pol­ish law is far from being per­fect.

And unfor­tu­nate­ly (…) one can­not say when the new act on ener­gy per­for­mance of build­ings comes into force, because right now we are only at the stage of draft assump­tions to the draft act. The delay in this trans­po­si­tion is more than a year and half and this is, sad­ly, quite char­ac­ter­is­tic for our leg­is­la­tor. The Pol­ish leg­is­la­tor acts in a way I would call min­i­mal­is­tic, which means that they select from the direc­tive the pro­vi­sions that have to be imple­ment­ed in our legal sys­tem in order not to be at risk of sanc­tions — and where the direc­tive allows, as this is the nature of this act of law — to select mea­sures aimed to meet the objec­tives indi­cat­ed in the direc­tive or select, choose own ways, the leg­is­la­tor does noth­ing.  As an exam­ple, let me say that in the assump­tions to the draft act I men­tioned before, only a few lines are ded­i­cat­ed to the issue of pro­grams sup­port­ing the ener­gy-sav­ing build­ing and to pro­mo­tion of this issue, and these pro­vi­sions lead to the state­ment that no new sup­port pro­grams are planned and the min­istry will cre­ate a web­site. I think there is no need to com­ment on the pos­si­ble effects of that on the mar­ket — or rather on no effects of that. I would like to go on with my crit­i­cism, but I see the mod­er­a­tor wink­ing at me and I think he wants me to stop my argu­ment, so I am sor­ry, but I have to give the micro­phone back.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: This is my unre­ward­ing func­tion (…). Now, I would like to give the floor to Mr. Marsza­łek — How does a devel­op­er cope with such an envi­ron­ment?


Michał Marsza­łek: Good morn­ing, Ladies and Gen­tle­men. As a devel­op­er, I think I should be speak­ing about obsta­cles which appear in the con­text of com­bin­ing an ener­gy-sav­ing build­ing with eco­nom­ic aspects. In fact, one may say that the eco­nom­ic aspect appears in two phas­es of a building’s life. First dur­ing con­struc­tion and sec­ond — dur­ing oper­a­tion of the build­ing. I can tell you how we over­come these obsta­cles in my com­pa­ny. The first ele­ment is that from the onset of the project we attempt to select part­ners, archi­tects, design­ers who can meet our expec­ta­tions. In our team, we also have qual­i­fied mem­bers from the tech­ni­cal depart­ment who make sure from the very begin­ning that the build­ing being built is of the high­est pri­or­i­ty. We imple­ment solu­tions like design­ing using the BIM sys­tem and we have an exten­sive cen­tral pur­chas­ing sys­tem. How­ev­er all this makes ener­gy-sav­ing build­ing more expen­sive — we have to invest more (dif­fer­ent sta­tis­tics say it is 2 to 5% more expen­sive).  For us, opti­mi­sa­tion is most impor­tant, as well as show­ing (…) that we want to go in the ener­gy-sav­ing direc­tion despite there are no dif­fer­ent guide­lines on how to do it (…) We try to do every­thing to make ener­gy-sav­ing build­ings a real­i­ty, as (…) we know that there is a demand for that and we know it is prof­itable. These build­ings are cheap­er in oper­a­tion, these build­ings are eas­i­er to sell and the peo­ple work­ing in these build­ings are more sat­is­fied. The very costs of oper­a­tion are low­er — I think it is the basis of ener­gy-sav­ing build­ing — that the build­ing itself brings, after some time, sav­ings. How­ev­er, I would like to point out that the aware­ness of peo­ple who use such a build­ing is very impor­tant. We, as a devel­op­er, who is aware of this, also try to edu­cate some­how the lessees. Anoth­er idea is to cre­ate some­thing (…) I don’t know if it will be called so — a green prop­er­ty man­ag­er who will take care that the build­ing is ener­gy-sav­ing dur­ing its oper­a­tional func­tion­ing after the occu­pan­cy per­mit is obtained. We intro­duce cer­tain pro­vi­sions into con­tracts to obtain every month data from util­i­ty coun­ters locat­ed on the leased space.  We ver­i­fy them against the ener­gy mod­el, check them and rec­om­mend cer­tain changes. When it comes to the ques­tion whether the ener­gy-sav­ing aspect of build­ing can be com­bined with eco­nom­ic aspect, I believe that this sub­ject has to be approached holis­ti­cal­ly, end-to-end.  I will let myself present here one more state­ment, I don’t want to tran­late it to Pol­ish, but the so-called life-cycle cost is very impor­tant to us too — this means that from the very begin­ning, the idea, the ver­i­fi­ca­tion of costs so that the best opti­miza­tion can be done and then, such build­ing is eco­nom­i­cal­ly jus­ti­fied.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Thank you very much and I give the floor to Ms. Kali­nows­ka-Soł­tys, to present us the point of view of an archi­tect.


Agniesz­ka Kali­nows­ka-Soł­tys:  Good morn­ing, Ladies and Gen­tle­men. The debate start­ed with the dis­cus­sion of law and leg­is­la­tion. We, as archi­tects, have not much influ­ence on the law, of course we can take part in debates, dis­cus­sions, make our remarks and we try to do it, but let’s be frank, we can­not do much. The law is what it is and in order not to stand in one place, we try to make some changes. Michał pre­sent­ed Skanska’s phi­los­o­phy, what are the expec­ta­tions of the investor and we, in a will to adapt to this ide­ol­o­gy we also com­plete­ly change our work, the per­cep­tion of what is going on in our com­pa­ny. Some time ago, maybe 5 or 10 years ago, the task of an archi­tect was to design a build­ing accord­ing to stan­dards, but actu­al­ly to a min­i­mum of stan­dards, because it has to be as cheap as pos­si­ble (…) and on this, the role of an archi­tect end­ed. Now, we are try­ing to meet the expec­ta­tions of investors, who exact­ly know what they want not only at the con­struc­tion stage but are already think­ing of how the build­ing will func­tion in the future. We had to change our approach to design­ing. Right now, at the very begin­ning of the design stage, which is the pre­lim­i­nary con­cept stage, we invite to dis­cus­sion every par­tic­i­pant of the invest­ment process. The work on the project starts with a brain­storm, where not only archi­tects and oth­er dis­ci­pline spe­cial­ists and sta­t­ic engi­neer are present, but most of all the investor and the prop­er­ty man­ag­er (some­thing that did not hap­pen in the past) and con­struc­tion com­pa­nies. We all talk about how to solve cer­tain aspects of the project to make it cheap­er and more com­fort­able and more ener­gy-sav­ing and more envi­ron­men­tal­ly friend­ly. I believe that by start­ing such dis­cus­sion at a very ear­ly con­cept stage, we may ben­e­fit a lot and save a lot of mon­ey. (…) The more a design is thought over, the project and lat­er build­ing man­age­ment is eas­i­er and the qual­i­ty of this design and of the build­ing itself is high­er — that is my opin­ion. And this is what we aim at.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Great, thank you very much. Now, I would like to ask Ms. Paciorkiewicz, as a prop­er­ty man­ag­er, to say whether these activ­i­ties bring some tan­gi­ble results and whether lessees appre­ci­ate this.


Zuzan­na Paciorkiewicz:  Good morn­ing, Ladies and Gen­tle­men. We, the prop­er­ty man­agers, get a cer­tain gift in the form of a build­ing, and get it togeth­er with users, or our lessees. We have not much influ­ence (…) on leg­is­la­tion (…). Still a few years ago, not much was said about green cer­tifi­cates, about cer­ti­fied build­ings. Take note that that were not the legal oblig­a­tions, the direc­tives that forced the sit­u­a­tion on the mar­ket when it comes to cer­tifi­cates; it was rather a grass-roots ini­tia­tive of the devel­op­ers’ mar­ket, who saw a great com­pet­i­tive edge in hav­ing a green build­ing. Thanks to this, it became pop­u­lar. Why do I speak about that? Because build­ing users are a kind of ani­mal who will do what its ben­e­fi­cial and con­ve­nient to them, so the basic obsta­cle or oppor­tu­ni­ty to have green build­ings, near-zero ener­gy build­ings, is in fact the aware­ness of users. If the users are not aware of that, they will sim­ply inter­fere with the oper­a­tion of the build­ing, because they will act as it is the most con­ve­nient to them. There­fore there is a need to design bear­ing in mind that our user is lazy. (…) and here, I would ful­ly agree with the Skan­s­ka rep­re­sen­ta­tive who said that the point is in design­ing and man­ag­ing the build­ing in such a way as to use it as it was intend­ed in its design.  We, as prop­er­ty man­agers, some­times have some prob­lems, because a build­ing is real­ly designed to be green, only after it is build, there is a prob­lem with edu­cat­ing users, with edu­cat­ing tech­ni­cal ser­vices, etc. Not every­one is suf­fi­cient­ly edu­cat­ed and has the appro­pri­ate aware­ness yet. This results from the fact that on one hand, every­one thinks that an eco­log­i­cal build­ing will be cheap­er, and on the oth­er hand, peo­ple are sav­ing on knowl­edge and on edu­cat­ing the ser­vice staff who con­tribute to the good and prop­er use of the build­ing. And here once again I will agree with my col­league from Skan­s­ka — when analysing the oper­a­tion of the build­ing, one has to look at the cost analy­sis of the whole life cycle of the facil­i­ty. Because a build­ing behaves dif­fer­ent­ly in its first of sec­ond year of oper­a­tion, when it is being occu­pied by lessees, and it is hard to make it zero-ener­gy at this stage. It may be zero-ener­gy only after some time. And this too has to be tak­en into account. In the design, every­thing looks nice in cal­cu­la­tions, but in prac­tice, there are many vari­ables com­ing into the equa­tion. Every­thing depends also on the method of oper­a­tion of lessees. (…)


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Thank you and I would like Mr. Bartkiewicz to com­ment on that.


Piotr Bartkiewicz: I am look­ing at this from the per­spec­tive of — let’s call it — sci­ence. I am watch­ing cer­tain process­es that are hap­pen­ing now. And I have to say that bas­ing on expe­ri­ence we have gained on inter­na­tion­al projects con­cern­ing the method of imple­ment­ing these direc­tives in oth­er coun­tries, and under­stand­ing the Pol­ish con­text — it seems we could do this sim­ply bet­ter. And what you have been stress­ing — it is true that aware­ness, end user aware­ness is very impor­tant, but I believe that broad­ly speak­ing, aware­ness of Poles is impor­tant. We are not ful­ly con­vinced and we do not under­stand too well what lies under­neath the pro­vi­sions we have been speak­ing of in the con­text of leg­isla­tive changes. It seems to me that we need to talk, need to have a wider debate, where we can show why we are doing this, what this change, for instance con­cern­ing the ther­mal per­for­mance ratios, con­sists in. On the oth­er hand, I would like you to note — we still have a few years, if we want to real­ly take this chal­lenge and have in 2020 near-zero ener­gy build­ings, and we only start from a lev­el where peo­ple do not real­ly know why this is for, do not real­ly want to agree to that, are, as we men­tioned it, lazy in some way or anoth­er, opti­mize their costs in some way or anoth­er, and also here, we have a free hand with regard to this leg­is­la­tion part. We can think about the life cycle analy­sis issues.  We can think about the opti­mum cost. We can think about the def­i­n­i­tion of the near-zero ener­gy build­ing.  In Europe, there are a few def­i­n­i­tions, dif­fer­ent coun­tries start­ed to define this in var­i­ous ways. We have to con­sid­er how will this impact the sys­tems, because in a few moments, we will be design­ing oth­er sys­tems, we will have to use renew­able sources of ener­gy more, which will make the very sys­tems, the very build­ings dif­fer­ent. Are we ready for that as design­ers, as con­trac­tors and as main­te­nance ser­vice? Are we ready for that as cit­i­zens? I believe we aren’t and this is the huge role of edu­ca­tion. Please note how poor­ly we pro­mote exam­ples of build­ings, let’s call them, near­ly-zero ener­gy or zero-ener­gy or even plus-ener­gy ones. For now, these are just a few iso­lat­ed exam­ples, but I think it is impor­tant to show that it is doable, to think about the con­se­quences it has for us all. So that we do not start mak­ing build­ings which have actu­al­ly very low ener­gy con­sump­tion but are dra­mat­ic when it comes to com­fort lev­el and qual­i­ty of inte­ri­ors. Per­haps once again, we will throw the baby out with the bath­wa­ter. And here I believe the holis­tic approach we are talk­ing about, an approach where we take care of dif­fer­ent issues, is the key.  (…) If we could have some incen­tives rather than just reg­u­la­tions, which tell us how strict­ly we have to lim­it the ener­gy demand. These may be finan­cial incen­tives (…) and if we can­not afford that, some small­er incen­tives, for instance ones where exam­i­na­tion of designs by cen­tral admin­is­tra­tion would be quick­er in case of sus­tain­able build­ings. There are many exam­ples of that world­wide and we have much to do in this respect. I believe this debate, where the par­tic­i­pants rep­re­sent var­i­ous com­pa­nies, var­i­ous approach­es, could help us elab­o­rate on an area that is com­mon to us all and would help us find this solu­tion.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Thank you very much for this lec­ture. There was a ques­tion which I will address to Mr. Gałąz­ka — do build­ings which are actu­al­ly more than aver­age, are cer­ti­fied, are designed and made in accor­dance with the best prac­tice and are real­ly ener­gy-sav­ing, do these build­ings have a chance to have their build­ing per­mits processed more quick­ly?


Tomasz Gałąz­ka: As an answer to this ques­tion I have to say that all the build­ings are assessed in the same way and there will be no spe­cial treat­ment for build­ings which have a bet­ter ener­gy per­for­mance than it results from stan­dards imposed by the law. I would also attract your atten­tion to the fact that all the aspects relat­ed to obtain­ing the build­ing per­mit and the exe­cu­tion of the invest­ment process include more than just ener­gy-sav­ing. There are many more aspects that have to be tak­en into con­sid­er­a­tion.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Thank you although I think we would be more sat­is­fied with a dif­fer­ent answer.


Tomasz Gałąz­ka: Well, I had to say what I said.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: We are hop­ing you at the min­istry will think it over, maybe in the next years.


Tomasz Gałąz­ka: I want­ed to point out to anoth­er thing, it is not that these reg­u­la­tions are imposed top-down, by the admin­is­tra­tion, by the mar­ket reg­u­la­tors. All the reg­u­la­tions we were speak­ing of at the begin­ning, both the act on ener­gy per­for­mance of build­ings, and the sec­ondary reg­u­la­tions I men­tioned before are sub­ject to major con­sul­ta­tions. Every stake­hold­er may take his or her posi­tion about that, dif­fer­ent cir­cles make their stand and many pro­pos­als, ideas are tak­en into con­sid­er­a­tion. Thank you.



Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: OK, chang­ing the sub­ject, when peo­ple go to the store and buy a fridge, they have some vague idea of the ener­gy sav­ing class, they also buy a wash­ing machine that is ener­gy-sav­ing — for years they have been pre­pared, accus­tomed to that. And they real­ly trust in com­pa­nies that make these appli­ances and real­ly make an informed deci­sion. But how is it when they buy a build­ing which has some ener­gy-sav­ing class to which the devel­op­er or the design­er com­mit? Are there meth­ods, any ideas on how to com­mit that the build­ing, with a prop­er method of use, will actu­al­ly con­sume the amount of ener­gy as writ­ten on the cer­tifi­cate or in some oth­er cal­cu­la­tion pre­sent­ed to the user or lessee? Maybe I would ask Mr. Marsza­łek to tell us what Skan­s­ka thinks in this con­text — how to con­vince users or buy­ers?


Michał Marsza­łek: Yes, we already thought about this aspect and soon we will be imple­ment­ing the so-called dash­board­ing — I’m sor­ry I’m using so many Eng­lish words, but some­times it is impos­si­ble to trans­late it to Pol­ish. We will use infor­ma­tion boards in build­ings, in main halls. There is a soft­ware we are cre­at­ing in house, which will illus­trate the con­sump­tion of the build­ing. Each lessee and each vis­i­tor of a giv­en build­ing will be aware of how the build­ing oper­ates, at the very moment, how much ener­gy it con­sumes and where it con­sumes most. We want to play a bit with the lessees, cre­ate a kind of com­pe­ti­tions for peo­ple or for com­pa­nies who will be using the least ener­gy in their office. Maybe there will be some mini prizes or some ini­tia­tives. We will be think­ing of that but is seems as a good step, linked to the aware­ness we were talk­ing about. Step by step we will make this ener­gy-sav­ing aware­ness very high in the near­est time.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Maybe some­one would like to take the floor again?


Zuzan­na Paciorkiewicz: I would like to add one thing — just to fol­low this way of think­ing about pos­i­tive moti­va­tion to be green and to edu­cate, because for now, we have the impres­sion things are just imposed on us (…) I like very much the British exam­ple, where the pub­lic admin­is­tra­tion start­ed to show the right direc­tion and start­ed from itself. To put it sim­ply, new offices or author­i­ties which are relo­cat­ed are relo­cat­ed only to ener­gy-sav­ing and green build­ings. I believe it is a kind of pos­i­tive exam­ple that we could try to imple­ment in Poland too. This gen­er­ates the high­est lev­el of trust. (…) It is an ele­ment of pos­i­tive moti­va­tion, as Poles do not like hav­ing things imposed on them. I do not like it myself and will do every­thing out of spite, per­haps not very wise­ly, but it is so some­times.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Mr. Gałąz­ka, what does the pub­lic sec­tor has to say to that and when the price cri­te­ri­on will cease to be the only cri­te­ri­on, but ener­gy-relat­ed cri­te­ria will be tak­en into con­sid­er­a­tion too?


Tomasz Gałąz­ka: It is hard to say — when it comes to pub­lic pro­cure­ment reg­u­la­tions they con­tain solu­tions thanks to which the price cri­te­ri­on is not the only one to be tak­en into con­sid­er­a­tion. On the oth­er hand, I would like to refer to the pro­pos­al that the pub­lic sec­tor should be a mod­el — it is actu­al­ly so. The pub­lic sec­tor has some tasks both con­cern­ing the pur­chase of ener­gy-effi­cient equip­ment and to occu­py build­ings of appro­pri­ate ener­gy stan­dard. But one thing has to be said — in its vast major­i­ty, the pub­lic sec­tor occu­pies build­ings which are quite old, and in many cas­es, these are his­tor­i­cal build­ings where the appli­ca­tion of ener­gy-sav­ing solu­tions is very dif­fi­cult.


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: Would peo­ple on my left like to com­ment on that?


Paweł Puch­er: I would like to con­tin­ue this sub­ject. I per­ceive myself as the one look­ing for gaps in the sys­tem.  It is true that in the new reg­u­la­tions, which will come into effect, this lead­ing role of pub­lic admin­is­tra­tion is pro­grammed. In fact, if the new reg­u­la­tions become effec­tive, all the pub­lic admin­is­tra­tion build­ings of more than 500m of usable space and, from July 2015 — of more than 250m — will have the oblig­a­tion to place copies of ener­gy cer­tifi­cates at a vis­i­ble place at the entrance of the build­ing. The same oblig­a­tion will apply to the non-pub­lic sec­tor but only in rela­tion to build­ings that have to obtain the ener­gy per­for­mance cer­tifi­cate. How­ev­er please note that we keep talk­ing about new build­ings, while in Poland there are more than 6 mil­lion used build­ings and the ener­gy con­sump­tion is the high­est there. The draft reg­u­la­tion will apply to them only to a very lim­it­ed extent. (…)


Tomasz Augusty­ni­ak: I would like to thank you very kind­ly that you came here today. I would like to thank our speak­ers and would like to stress that as you could see, 40 min­utes is a way too short. There­fore we would like to start this debate today.  We invite you to par­tic­i­pate in it, express your opin­ions, ask ques­tions we could address to experts. At the begin­ning of next year we will present the results of this debate. We already have some first remarks of com­pa­nies, whose rep­re­sen­ta­tives could not be with us today due to a short­age of time. So please feel invit­ed to par­tic­i­pate in this debate. Thank you.
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